In this Seance, Thomas Jefferson Explains Why He is Still Interested in Politics and How to Avoid the Grave Danger that We Are Facing

Jefferson warns us that if there is to ever be peace in this world and to avoid a great and terrible war, all nations must learn to trust one another, not be competitive and live together in harmony. True spiritual values must overcome false material values of prestige, avarice, and power. These days, no one would benefit from war.

Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743 - July 4, 1826) was an American lawyer and Founding Father, and principal author of the Declaration of Independence (1776). He was elected the second Vice President of the United States (1797 - 1801) and the third President (1801 - 1809). Primarily of English ancestry, he was born and educated in Virginia, where he graduated from the College of William & Mary, practiced law and married Martha Wayles Skelton. Jefferson was a proponent of democracy, republicanism and individual rights, which motivated American colonists to break from Great Britain and form a new nation. More information on his lifetime as Thomas Jefferson can be found here. The complete seance recording of Thomas Jefferson can be found here. Please GO HERE if videos don't load

The following seance is mainly a conversation between Spirit Communicator, Thomas Jefferson and the sitters George Woods and Betty Greene:

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "I am very pleased to be able to come and speak to you."

George Woods: "It's very nice to have you come."

Betty Greene: "Thank you. May we have your name?" [long pause]

Medium Leslie Flint: "That always sets up a problem. [laughter]"

Mickey: "Hold on . . ."

Betty Greene: "Alright Mickey."

George Woods: "Alright Mickey."

Betty Greene: "You're very clear Mickey."

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "I was always considered a very plain man, a plain spoken man . . ."

George Woods: "Oh that's very nice."

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: ". . . and a very plain man indeed . . . in every aspect."

George Woods: "Yes."

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "I am not quite sure if you can hear what I am saying. Very difficult for anyone in my position to manifest in this fashion to talk to people on Earth and at the same time keep one's equilibrium if one can use that term and apply to the spirit. That you know when one comes back and one endeavors to speak in this fashion, it's all very conflicting and complicated. Aligning with vibration, tuning in, remembering things that one wishes to say, transmission of thought into sound, words, words, often words which don't indicate anything clearly at least what one feels, I find extreme difficulty."

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "My name, by the way, is Jefferson."

George Woods: "Jefferson. Oh yes, I've . . . you've been through here before haven't you?"

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "Oh, some while back, and after that I thought I would never bother to come back again. I was so fed up, and so disappointed, felt that I hadn't made my point, I hadn't transmitted my thoughts at all well or clearly, but nevertheless hear I am."

Betty Greene: "Thank you."

George Woods: "Thank you for coming."

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "I know that you are endeavoring to do very good work. I know that you are striving to contact people of all races, all creeds by the use of these talking machines, recording machines. When you're able to play these things back to people it, just I feel sure, give them some knowledge and experience, may be difficult for some to accept, but nevertheless it makes one think if nothing else, if one should make a man think, you're well on the path to progress."

George Woods: "I agree." [unclear]

Betty Greene: "Would you tell us about your self and what you're doing?"

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "Oh . . . I see, but . . . err . . . I have a bit of a setpiece."

Betty Greene: "Well, go on."

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "I am very interested in politics. You might think that is a very strange thing for a spirit to be interested in. But I'm not interested in politics in a material sense, although, of course, they must be in as much as they are politics and therefore they are material or affecting the conditions of Earth, but are being very perturbed by a lot more people on this side by the way things are going in your world. And I'm particularly concerned naturally in my own country, or at least that which was my own country. I'm very disturbed indeed, because I feel that unless something is done very soon, the world could so easily be plunged into a third world war which would be more ghastly and more dreadful than anything than one can imagine. There's still hope. While there's hope, you must make every effort to try to bring people together. I do feel there is hope, and I feel that there is every reason to believe that the worse can be averted.

People today are not blind, in a sense. They sometimes pretend to be blind or perhaps they put up the blinkers. Politics is a very weird, strange game as I know only too well, but it's much worse in this modern generation of yours than in my time. Today everyone is afraid of everyone. Feeling is a predominant thing in your world. Everyone is ruled by fear, and yet I feel looking as I do from this side into the minds and the hearts of statesmen everywhere, there's no desire for war. Every nation, every politician realizes that war would be devastating. No one could win a war: everyone would suffer and no one would gain. And the extraordinary thing is, everyone realizes that, everyone realizes the absolute futility of such a thing as war. It would not bring any thing to any one person or nation or peoples. Yet there's this fear--fear the other man might be a bit stronger than you, and so we have this silly man's arms race. This whole stride is illusion, which it is an illusion, that you've got to be stronger than the next man. Fifty years ago it might have been considered very reasonable, an understandable outlook. But today, I think you've got to the point where, unless you sit down and solve your problems sensibly, and unless you know that and come to right conclusions, some fool, I mean with not realizing it, [could] set the world ablaze.

I think you've got to trust Russia, whether you like the idea or not. You can't get away from the fact that eventually you've got to start hugging the big bear. It's no good going on the way that statesmen have been going on this earth for around ten years. You've got to realize that you've got to live together, you've got to work together, you've got to trade together, you've got to be friends."

Betty Greene: "May I, I've got something: those people who don't understand the universal laws of truth have their own idea of the law, war or differences of thought kicking about and their own kinds of experience."

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "I think to some extent that's true, but I imply, I gather that you try to convey to me that . . . that Russia doesn't realize the universal laws. I think what we've got to realize is that who does? Do you think my great country, America understands universal laws? Individuals here and there, yes. But generally speaking, no. I mean the point is, we've got to face facts. I'm not advocating any one country above another. I'm only concerned with word peace: the people should get together and be friends in spite of their differences which are bound to be which can be altered through greater understanding of each other. The point is that man must realize that he can no longer go on in the same way. He's got to come to heal, he's got to realize that the old days are dead. You can't lead in the 20th century in the way you did in the 19th. You can't act in the same way, you can't even think in the same way. You're living in an age in a world where you've just got to adjust yourselves accordingly. That doesn't mean to say that you've got to become more materialistic. Until man applies spiritual rules, there's no hope for the future. You might say to me, well we accept that, we believe that, but knowing that how can be accept a country like Russia which you look upon as an atheistic country, generally speaking, with no religious tolerance in fact you might say.

Well, I think there are so many different ways of seeing this question. One might say, well look at some of the countries that are Christian. Can you really point to them as being terribly, shall we say, formed or progressive in their thoughts, and in their actions politically speaking, I mean?"

Betty Greene: "Definitely not."

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "Well, I mean the whole point is this: I am advocating brotherhood among men. I am not concerned whether a man's a Buddhist, a Jew, or a Christian. I'm only concerned that he's a human being who realizes he's part of the spiritual purpose, that he's part of the power and love of God, that he's bound with his brother irrespective of color, class or creed, that we are all his children. We've got to one day get down together working together in peace and in harmony. And I say to you that the Russian is equally important, equally sincere as an American, or a Hindu, or a Britisher.

We must not judge a nation and its peoples by its leaders, for if we did, I am afraid we'd have a pretty poor opinion of them. I know, you can say, well we vote for them, surely you vote for them, but you're not responsible for what they do when they get there, because often they get their votes in their own kind of way which is far from the things they intend to do or do do when circumstances arise."

George Woods: "Don't you think that the churches are doing great harm thinking against Russia all the time?"

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "Well I think quite frankly that not only the churches, I think the newspapers, I think the whole set-up is so, if not ridiculous, very pathetic. I mean how can you spread good will, how can you have good will if you're constantly in every way attacking either an individual or a nation. You've just got to be more diplomatic for one thing. Apart from anything else, you've got to have a certain amount of diplomacy. And it seems to me that as far as Russia is concerned, there're hardly any nations, particularly the so-called great nations have been at all partial or at all considerate, or even kind, generous and true. I know Russia's made many a mistake. No one's denying that, we all know that, but then again could you tell me that any other country hasn't made mistakes? Many mistakes, we can think back into English history, and we can remember and recall things which have happened which were appalling, are equally as bad as many of the things that Russians are being accused of doing."

George Woods: "And yet lots of people inside now who've been to Russia have been treated very well."

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "I am not standing for any one nation, I am concerned with world peace and good will among men, and I say that until there is this different approach towards Russia, and until there is this realization that Russia wants peace and friendship with the world, you won't make any progress, you've just got to accept that, and you must trust someone sometime, otherwise you'll never get anywhere."

Betty Greene: "I always thought that too."

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "I know there are vast differences."

George Woods: "Can you suggest and accept . . . [?] I remember your name very much from years ago. Were you in . . . in Washington?"

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "I was, for a time . . ."

Betty Greene: "You're president, wen't you?"

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: ". . . one time, a long time ago."

George Woods: "You were president?"

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "Yes."

Betty Greene: "You were at the White House?"

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "Well, I don't feel inclined to talk about that."

Betty Greene: "No, no, alright."

Betty Greene: "Mr. Jefferson, I would like you to tell us something about your reactions when you passed over and you know how you found your self and . . .?"

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "Well my reactions when I passed over here were simply very different to any I could have possibly anticipated. I supposed, in a kind of way, I had the idea the majority of you had that when you died you went to some sort of place called heaven, and or if you are unlucky, the other place. Well I don't know, I found myself in an environment here which was so like material life as I've known in the country that it seemed that I was way back in my youth in as much that I was in an atmosphere of beauty, countryside, scenery which was magnificent. I remember seeing various relations and friends who all seem terribly, truly excited to see me, all crowding around me, welcoming me, showing me around.

It was all like a wonderful homecoming into a world which so new and yet which was vaguely familiar. It was as if, you might say, that your world that I had known in my youth had been transported into this new world, as if I was being received into an atmosphere which was natural and quite comforting. What amazed me, of course, at first was that everything seemed so natural. I don't know why what you'd think passing out should be unnatural, because, in a sense, it's the most natural thing that happens to everyone.

But here was a world which was so real, so natural, that it could have been a kind a dream that one might have had thinking back into one's early years, one's youth among one's friends and countryside that was familiar, and in a kind of way I suppose, you might say it was a kind of dream. There were dreams that were very real and I realized now that several times I had dreams when on Earth which were, in fact, realities. I realized that those things I thought were dreams were not so. My spirit had been released from its body and I traveled over here and met various souls that I had known and been in an environment which was familiar and friendly. So when I died, as you call it, I went into this environment or condition of life which I'd seen often in my dream state. In other words, I'd arrived home to a place which become familiar, who having as you term it, dreamed it so often."

Betty Greene: "Yes."

George Woods: "Were you able to come back to the earth and visit Earth now that . . .?"

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "Oh yes, I came back quite frequently the first few years, that I use the word "time" to see how things are going on to see old friends. After a time I got a little bored in that I felt well here am I trying to make contact and take an interest in the old life, and no one seems very interested in me, and no one seems conscious of my presence. It all seemed rather pointless somehow, and I got very tired of that, and for quite a while I stepped away from Earth. But gladly I felt the call to come back and be of some service, and so in consequence I've taken an active interest in politics, because I realize, as many do here, that it's essential for changes [to] take place in your world."

George Woods: "You can see both kinds of the great . . . I can see the . . . how things are reacting in America?" [unclear]

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "Well I've seen good and evil on both sides. That's why I'm quite impartial. I'm not in any way prejudice in favor of one nation or the another. I realize that the human beings that constitute nations are individuals that the majority, 999 out of a 1000, are by their very nature, sincere, ordinary people. They don't want war. They have nothing to gain by war."

George Woods: "Oh, I don't think the majority of people want war, not in the world, I think they very much resent war."

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "Well you have to get away from false prestige."

George Woods: "Yes."

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "Prestige and all the things which one time seemed so important are things of the past. One must get beyond the confines of country, and nationality, and the worshiping of a flag. One must realize that you are citizens of the world, that you are children of God, that you are all part of each other, and if you do evil, it reacts upon someone else and rebounds back upon you. No one can escape from himself."

George Woods: "It's very hard to tell for all back . . ." [unclear then Betty overlaps]

Betty Greene: "Unfortunately for these statesmen, they don't know those things we suggest them." [unclear]

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "I know. I know, the tragedy is that a few statesmen can plunge the world into catastrophe, and yet they all want to avoid it, and yet they are all heading towards it because of fear, because they won't trust anyone, and because often their principles are all wrong. In fact I go as far as saying in many instances they are definitely wrong. You've got to get away from this foolish idea of one nation being superior to another."

George Woods: "They don't agree much with themselves, that is the problem." [unclear]

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "Unfortunately the world worships material things: puts a false value on them. Man's got to realize that the only things that matter are the spiritual things. They are the things that do not rust, do not decay. Important though these things may be when on Earth such as wealth and position, they are infinitesimal in themselves. One should realize that one has got to progress mentally and spiritually, and if you're blessed with worldly things, to realize their only link is, they're there for you to use and to share among those less fortunate than yourselves. But to do as the majority do: struggle from birth to grave for money and position and then have to leave it and accomplish nothing in consequence, seems to be a pointless and foolish attitude towards life."

George Woods: "Do you think Russia will get to the moon and live there?" [unclear]

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "Well, yes. I wouldn't say they'll live there, but they may probably get there before they come back again, I wouldn't like to say."

George Woods: "Are there some people living on the moon yet?" [unclear]

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "Nah . . . people as it were, I suppose you call them people, there are entities . . ."

George Woods: "On the moon?"

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: ". . . on the moon and on other planets too. You see the earth world for centuries has considered itself the only world. It's always maintained that it's the only form of life: the earth life, but of course gradually science is beginning to evolve and make possible contacts in various ways, and I think the time will come when the earth will realize that they have to become one people, not nations, not separate individuals."

Betty Greene: "[In] fact the earth world got a little bit to lower its foot hasn't it?" [unclear]

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "Well I'm afraid there's a lot of truth in that, but I just feel that fundamentally the people of the earth are good. I believe in goodness. I know that the opposite of goodness is evil, but I realize that which is evil is good gone wrong. I know that the good in man can overcome the worser part, and that the average person only wants to do that which is good and right. We all have sins. We all make mistakes. No one's perfect. No one expects you to be. We're not perfect, but we know full well that the human race can and must get together and must work in unison for peace, for tranquility of spirit, and the development of spirit, and for the good of each other."

George Woods: "Have you been to any other places you've probably visited beyond Earth?" [unclear]

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "I've been to many spheres."

George Woods: "Many spheres? And higher spheres?"

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "Well I have been privileged to go to one higher sphere on my own for a great visit."

George Woods: "What . . . could you tell what it was like in a higher plane at all?"

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "Well, it's very difficult because you ask me to tell you something about a sphere which is even removed from my self and far, far removed from Earth, and for me to describe something or in a material language, I could think of no way, no words that could really describe it, except in that it was full of light, and that it had such harmony and such beauty that words couldn't describe it, and one was ever conscious of beauty in so many ways, one felt so elevated in consequence that one felt that one could rise beyond all that one had ever known, and all that one had ever hoped. Here there was perfection, if ever there was perfection, and in a kind of way, it was so wonderful that one felt like a child that had opened his eyes on something which is so beautiful and so glorious, that you could hardly believe it, accept you gasp in surprise, and your heart would thump away and you sort of feel this is too wonderful and would it last? Indeed there are some things that one cannot describe.

There are many things in your world that you witness. Although sometimes they have human beings who are so used to seeing them that they need perhaps not ignore them, but they accept them and hardly see them in consequence. There are many beauties: glory in the sunset, and stars in the sky, all the beauties of nature that you know."

Betty Greene: "I see that in flowers." [unclear]

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "Believe me we see these here, but a thousand times more beautiful. Flowers grow here six feet high with magnificent blossoms, and they give off a ringing tone and a musical note and the perfume is wonderful."

George Woods: "I've been given an immense picture. I've been writing down what I've been getting, seeing into a . . . a most beautiful world, and I've been writing down what you say . . . I saw flowers about six feet high." [unclear]

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "Very common here. Flowers grow to enormous height."

George Woods: "And trees with color." [unclear]

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "Yes, that's true. You see we have many colors of which you have no knowledge. We have colors here which we couldn't describe to you. The hues are varied and many, and the birds, for instance: we have wonderful birds many of which you're familiar with of course, but others that you are not, and of course, we have a mental communication. You see now you take the animal kingdom in your world: you have a pet animal, a dog, cat, and you get to know it and it gets to know you, and although it can't speak, it somehow transmits things to you, and you're able to transmit things to it, and the same applies here, but here because mind is so dominant. Here thought is such a reality that the animal can speak, not only in a vocal sense, but in a mental sense. Here the animal is more sensitive than it is on Earth. Here we are conscious of each other's thoughts.

We don't have to enunciate words or vibrate the atmosphere to create sound to make ourselves known. Automatically we know each other. That's a wonderful thing, and rather frightening at first, but the point is when you realize that you do know the other person for the very first time, on that precedent you can be of a kind of camouflage, you can facade, and you can be in many ways what you are not to a person. Here, you cannot be that. Here you are known really as you are for the first time. At first it's a little frightening, but gradually you begin to progress and you lose a lot of the things which at one time were common to your nature and you expand and grow and those things don't worry you so much. But I'm afraid here, you cannot put up any facade, because you are known immediately. You know exactly what a person is."

George Woods: "Yes, yes. When they first come over will they give you a picture of them?" [unclear]

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "Yes."

George Woods: "As they really are?" [unclear]

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "Yes. . . . I will come and talk to you again some time. I know you are doing a very wonderful job, but I do want you to know this, that anyone who may listen to this recording, I want you to know this: that I in common with every soul on this side are only concerned with the welfare of the human race. We're only concerned with the spiritual development and progression of the human being. We are not concerned in any way with material things as such, but we are concerned with the spiritual progress. We have no axe to grind, we therefore can say what we feel with all our heart. We don't have to build up any camouflage or facade. We don't have to hide behind something of which we are not.

We tell you the truth, and we say to you, whoever you are or wherever you may be working in loving cooperation with the realms of Spirit, we will help you, we will guide you and uplift you. Give us the opportunity, open your hearts and your minds to us, let us come in and we will do our utmost to help you individually and collectively and in peace and in harmony together. Try to see the other man's point of view, try sometimes to step down from your own pedestal to meet him half way. That's the only way of peace. Don't imagine that you are superior, because those who are most humble are often those who are most progressed. Love opens the door, and we know that if you open that door a little way, it can gradually be pushed wide open that all may enter and all may be in harmony together.

All is well my friends, while you strive in sincerity and truth to do that which is just, honest and righteous. Know that we won't fail you for that which we have undertaken on your behalf is for the world, for the good of humanity, that each brother may indeed live in peace and grow in knowledge and experience and the world might find a path to freedom spiritually."

Betty Greene: "Thank you Mr. Jefferson."

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "Bless you and goodbye."

Betty Greene: "Goodbye!"

Communicator Thomas Jefferson: "I will come again sometime. Bye bye."

Betty Greene: "Goodbye. Bub-bye!"

George Woods: "Thank you very much."

Medium Leslie Flint: "He's good wasn't he?"

(end of recording)